What if phenomenal consciousness, signs, communication, and interpretation are fundamental aspects of all living systems, whether or not we can detect brains? This is the departure point of biosemiotics, an interdisciplinary field that combines biology, semiotics (the study of signs and meaning), and philosophy.
Environmental philosopher Dr. Yogi Hendlin is Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Biosemiotics and, in this conversation, Hans Busstra talks to him about the widespread meaning-making in nature. All living beings, from bacteria to plants to mammals, have an ‘Umwelt,’ a dashboard representation of the world. In a sense, biosemiotics states that our mind is in the world: we are embodied beings, and with every inhalation 50.000 microbes enter our body, and they communicate to us by influencing our microbiome.
0:00:00 Intro
0:03:20 Does nature speak to us in a language that we forgot?
0:08:18 The decentralization of agency
0:12:31 On the pluri-crisis
0:18:09 What’s the measurement problem in biology?
0:23:04 What is biosemiotics?
0:27:23 The overlapping of dashboards, of ‘Umwelts’
0:30:13 Semiocide: the killing of meaning
0:32:52 Reality as inhalation and exhalation
0:35:53 Psychedelics are Ecodelics
0:37:50 Hans on the love for a tree
0:43:29 ‘Shinrin-yoku’: forest bathing in Japan
0:47:55 Scrolling on our black mirrors: craving to be seen by the more-than-human world
0:48:55 On spiritual bypassing
0:54:30 The state of emergency we’re in
0:58:04 What is the crisis of reason behind the planetary problems we see?
1:07:25 We need to feel again
1:12:07 Hans and Yogi discuss the Mind at Large
1:14:58 How do we ‘report back’ to the universe?
1:18:19 If you have to suffer, make it beautiful
1:19:51 Yogi on his personal ‘dance’
1:24:25 Closing remarks
Links to Dr. Yogi Hendlin’s scientific work:
Khumalo, B., & Hendlin, Y. H. (2024). Nonveridical biosemiotics and the Interface Theory of Perception: Implications for perception-mediated selection. Phenomenology and the Cognitive Sciences.
Hendlin, Y. H. (2020). Sunlight as a Photosynthetic Information Technology: Becoming Plant in Tom Robbins’s Jitterbug Perfume. In K. E. Bishop, D. Higgins, & J. Määttä (Eds.), Plants in science fiction: Speculative vegetation (pp. 151–175). University of Wales Press.
Hendlin, Y. H. (2020). The human turn in biosemiotics. In Ľ. Lacková, C. J. Rodríguez, & K. Kull (Eds.), Gatherings in Biosemiotics XX. University of Tartu Press.
Hendlin, Y. H. (2023). Object‐Oriented Ontology and the Other of We in Anthropocentric Posthumanism. Zygon.
Hendlin, Y. H. (2021). Surveying the Chemical Anthropocene: Chemical Imaginaries and the Politics of Defining Toxicity. Environment and Society, 12(1), 181–202.
Other scientific work referenced in the interview:
Asher Walden’s essay
Primates Meditating
Smuts, B. (2001). Encounters with animal minds. Journal of Consciousness Studies, 8(5–6), 293–309.
On Human-Dolphin fishing
Zappes, C. A., Andriolo, A., Simões-Lopes, P. C., & Di Beneditto, A. P. M. (2011). ‘Human-dolphin (Tursiops truncatus Montagu, 1821) cooperative fishery’ and its influence on cast net fishing activities in Barra de Imbé/Tramandaí, Southern Brazil. Ocean & Coastal Management, 54(5), 427–432.
On ‘tree-hugging’ in India
Shiva, V., & Bandyopadhyay, J. (1986). The Evolution, Structure, and Impact of the Chipko Movement. Mountain Research and Development, 6(2), 133–142.
On Elephants helping people survive after the Sri Lankan Tsunami
Wikramanayake, E., Fernando, P., & Leimgruber, P. (2006). Behavioral Response of Satellite-collared Elephants to the Tsunami in Southern Sri Lanka1. Biotropica, 38(6), 775–777.
Tsunami images under fair use policy
All stock footage licensed under Storyblocks
Music licensed under Soundstripe
Interview content copyright by Essentia Foundation, 2025
www.essentiafoundation.org
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Convidado bom demais 🎉
Martin Buber – I and Thou
Unfortunately, not being as connected to nature as much as we naturally would have done,
… has been an elaborate and negatively sick Machiavellian plan – that has gone on for more than just centuries …
…and many of us are, most thankfully, waking up to it…
… so that revelations and positive transformation can lead us towards an harmoniously healthy and creative (much more organic and Spirit conscious way led) beautiful forward movement of interaction within the Oneness that we all are.
Namaste!
❤❤❤
Thank you!!!
Archery meditation is also good as you have to stop breathing and focus before you release the arrow
May the world get rid of Zionism, Technofeudalism, Israel and the US military industrial complex. Humanity must evolve towards the light in hands with multi species ecological consciousness
great conversation
We should of sat down with the animals and learnt there language yoga came close
After more than 30 years of research on receptors, cellular receptors appear to be the computational powerhouses of all cellular life. The symphonic dance they perform gives us the sensation of consciousness. See Origins of Life's Sensoria for more information.
Thank you Hans, for your channel. Thank you for what you do.
I so enjoyed this conversation. It was beautiful. It’s life-giving and eternal thank you thank you thank you.❤
Loved this…just so refreshing!
Don't forget to pause the video before you start reading the beautiful messages in the comments.😊❤
This dudes uhhhs and ummms are too much for me I can’t listen to it anymore
This was an amzing interview. Thank you both for expanding my knowledge horizon! I will watch it again, for sure. Thank you! ❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉
Thanks!
Biosemiotics, a new way of …
Meanwhile me in early 2017 having Biosemiotics as one of my bachelor courses.
This is an absolutely crucially important interview that connects the focus of the Essentia Foundation with the fundamentally important fields of Biosemiotics and 5EA neuroscience which are deeply interconnected and which I see as being related to an emerging fundamental transformation in the structure of human consciousness as predicted by Jean Gebser in his book, The Ever Present Origin. This is also in the work of Owen Barfield and in the predictions of Colin Wilson and late ideas of Abraham Maslov regarding self-transcendence as the step above self-realization. Self-transcendence as ego integration attained in the purpose of actively taking care of the needs of the Other. Assisting the Other to self-actualize.
This video needs to go viral…so important!!
EGO builds strong barriers blocking out Empathy, kindness, forgiveness.
It will destroy any belief in a power higher than Itself.
Some Religious Leaders can become led by their Egos.
Most Egotistical people are Atheists.
1:30 “we look at our black mirrors craving dopamine” [Watches on a black mirror 😬]
Bizarre how the western mind has to take such a long, convoluted and complicated route to reach an understanding that they scorned the rest of humanity for having.
The metacrisis, the default mode network, psychedelics, nature as healing, connection to all things, the overdominant left hemisphere, overly constrained and distorted private realities, hubristic techno utopianism – this conversation is packed. Bravo.
I'm a little off topic here. Please everyone help ban glyphosate it's killing us the planet, we must stop now please contact your state senator.❤😢
Human societies coordinate through shared cognitive tools like language, mathematics, and money. These are social cognitive layers that help us interpret reality and make collective decisions across time. The Sapir–Whorf hypothesis, or linguistic relativity, suggests that the tools we use to describe and measure the world shape what we are able to perceive and prioritize. Money functions as one of these languages. It is the system that tells society what is scarce, what is valuable, and where effort should go.
When the monetary system works well, prices act as reliable signals of real scarcity, energy, labor, and resources. People can plan long term, invest in durable solutions, and compete by solving real problems. But when money loses fidelity, when its supply expands unpredictably or its value erodes, the measurement layer becomes distorted. The syntax of exchange still exists, but the semantics drift away from physical reality. Symbols continue to move, but they no longer point clearly to real value.
Once this happens, behavior adapts to the distorted signals. Goodhart’s Law appears, meaning that when a measurement becomes the target, people optimize the metric rather than the underlying reality. Companies optimize profits or growth metrics even when this damages product quality or ecosystems. Competition pushes firms toward cost cutting, planned obsolescence, resource extraction, and short-term survival strategies. Environmental degradation and engineered consumption then emerge not simply from greed but from systemic incentives driven by a broken measurement layer.
Through a biosemiotic lens, organisms respond to signs in their environment. For humans, money is one of the primary signals guiding action. If the signal system is corrupted, society metabolizes resources inefficiently. Culture, psychology, and identity adapt to distorted incentives, leading to short time horizons and a constant struggle to keep up with a changing unit of account.
The argument, then, is that restoring a high-fidelity monetary medium re-anchors economic coordination to physical constraints, such as scarcity and energy limits grounded in thermodynamics. A harder monetary system reconnects symbols to reality, allowing prices to again reflect real scarcity and effort. Long-term planning becomes rational, durability becomes competitive, and stewardship of resources aligns better with economic success.
Cultural and psychological habits do not change instantly, but evolution favors better signaling systems. As actors using higher-fidelity signals gain advantage, others adapt. The transition may be turbulent, since identities and institutions are built on the old system, but competition gradually selects for more accurate coordination tools.
At a deeper level, economics itself is converging with complexity science, network science, and information theory. Societies are being understood less as mechanical systems and more as adaptive systems governed by feedback, signals, and constraints. Money, in this view, is not neutral but part of the cognitive infrastructure of civilization. Choosing a better monetary layer is like choosing a better language or measurement tool. Evolution tends to retain tools that describe reality with higher fidelity.
So the core thesis is simple. Distorted measurement produces distorted behavior. Fix the measurement layer, and incentives, culture, and ecological outcomes gradually reorganize. Money reform alone does not solve every problem, but it changes the direction in which the entire system evolves, because human perception and action follow the signals embedded in the languages we use to coordinate reality.
sounds like the age of transitions is well under it way
hermeticism laws are in full effect My nIGHGhA
Resisting this Reality will never lead us to "Ascension" either, I love this conversation! Thank you so much.
Please never delete this channel 🙏🏼 a
1:40 Excuse me, boss… I have this prescription for "touch grass."
This really helps to think deeply, life IS interpretations❤
Regarding the dolphins symbiosis at minute 21, we also are entering symbiosas with extraterrestrials 👽🪽
Thank you so much both. It was profound and deep 💖🙌🙏
Anybody else ever felt a profound connection to trees to the point it was like a state of euphoria and you felt as if they were communicating with you?
When my mind goes blank and I'm speechless I don't know what to say in certain situations, unknown information spontaneously comes out of my mouth.
For example during a gender revealing family gathering my nephew said something that was quite shocking and everyone was stunned and speechless including myself.
I needed to say something. I suddenly blurred out "So Tyler how is your big toe?"
He looked at me in shock and said "how do you know about my big toe? I didn't tell anyone what happened!!"
I said " I have no idea, what happened to your toe?" I don't know why I said that it just came out
He said "At work I dropped a propane tank on it. It turning black and blue and it's going to fall off . I didn't tell anyone because I was not wearing my steel toe boots"
Everyone was surprised and wanted me to do it again. I said it doesn't work that way and I can't make it happen.
It's not the first time. It won't be the last. I have no idea how it works or where these thoughts come from. Some people believe it's one of their dead relatives or friends sending them messages but I don't know
Like most of this discussion
Hope cO2 global warming is recognized as ‘a non truth’ – but clean air and water etc is absolutely important